_
      meet
      again,
      there
      will
      be
     
     
      attention
      on
      it,
      it
      won’t
     
     
      take
      place
      in
      secret.
      Most
     
     
      of
      the
      WTO’s
      meetings
     
     
      take
      place
      behind
      closed
     
     
      doors
      and
      even
      at
      the
     
     
      meeting
      in
      Seattle
      only
      the
     
     
      most
      industrialized
      coun-
     
     
      tries
      were
      at
      the
      table,
     
     
      whereas
      many
      of
      the
      other
     
     
      countries
      of
      the
      World
     
     
      were
      completely
      excluded
     
     
      from
      the
      deliberations
      that
     
     
      were
      taking
      place.
      But
     
     
      now,
      |
      think,
      there
      is
      a
     
     
      new
      focus
      on
      what
      poli-
     
     
      cies
      they
      are
      building
      and
     
     
      their
      impact.
      The
      impact
     
     
      has
      been
      pretty
      wide
      as
     
     
      well,
      for
      example,
      the
     
     
      Canadian
      government,
      this
     
     
      time,
      hada
      policy
      to
      put
     
     
      social
      programs
      on
      the
     
     
      table.
      The
      fact
      is
      they
     
     
      want
      to
      put
      education
      and
     
     
      health
      programs
      on
      the
     
     
      table
      as
      considered
      to
      be
     
     
      areas
      of
      trade.
      This
      isa
     
     
      major
      problem
      -
      for
      profit
     
     
      corporations
      south
      of
      the
     
     
      border
      who
      do
      want
      to
     
     
      muscle
      in
      on
      our
      health
     
     
      care
      and
      education,
      and
     
     
      see
      them
      not
      as
      delivering
     
     
      programs
      to
      citizens
      or
     
     
      programs
      that
      we
      have
     
     
      some
      control
      over,
     
     
      (Canada)
      is
      basically
      a
     
     
      market,
      where
      they
      can
     
     
      make
      money.
      Which
      isa
     
     
      completely
      different
      way
     
     
      of
      looking
      at
      these
      things.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      KB:
      It
      has
      always
      been
     
     
      that
      way
      though.
      Those
     
     
      things
      have
      always
      been
     
     
      seen
      by
      multi-national
     
     
      corporations,
      and
      always
     
     
      will
      be
      seen,
      as
      trade
     
     
      barriers.
      You
      will
      never
     
     
      change
      that
      from
      the
     
    
   
   
    
     
      corporate
      perspective.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      LC:
      No,
      you're
      right,
      but
     
     
      I
      don’t
      think
      we
      have
      ever
     
     
      had
      the
      size
      of
      health
     
     
      corporations,
      or
      more
     
     
      profit
      at
      the
      same
      level
      and
     
     
      the
      same
      size,
      with
      the
      -
     
    
   
   
    
     
      looking
      at
      Canada
      asa
     
     
      market
      for
      themselves,
      as
     
     
      opposed
      to
      Canadians
     
     
      seeing
      it
      as
      ‘our
      health
     
     
      care
      system’
      one
      we
      have
     
     
      built
      and
      should
      be
      proud
     
     
      of.
      And
      one
      we
      need
      to
     
     
      maintain
      as
      one
      that
      is
     
     
      public
      and
      accessible
      and
     
     
      affordable
      and
      all
      those
     
     
      other
      things
      and
      we
      do
      not
     
     
      see
      that
      as
      a
      place
      to
     
     
      make
      money.
      Even
      in
     
     
      terms
      of
      efficiencies,
      our
     
     
      health
      care
      system
      is
      a
      lot
     
     
      cheaper
      with
      100%
     
     
      coverage
      than
      the
      Ameri-
     
     
      can
      system.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      KB:
      I
      suppose
      then
      you
     
     
      run
      into
      the
      question
      of
     
     
      relative
      taxation,
      and,
      are
     
     
      we,
      as
      Canadians,
      over-
     
     
      taxed?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      LC:
      No,
      not
      for
      what
      we
     
     
      are
      getting
      inreturn.
      We
     
     
      do
      need
      to
      examine
      fair
     
     
      taxation
      and
      who
      pays
     
     
      what
      share.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      KB:
      Is
      it
      possible
      to
     
     
      incorporate
      these
      issues,
     
     
      environmental
      and
      the
      like,
     
     
      into
      the
      discussions
      with
     
     
      the
      WTO,
      to
      make
      them
     
    
   
   
    
     
      _
      issues
      for
      discussion
      for
     
    
   
   
    
     
      what
      they
      are,
      rather
      than
     
     
      for
      what
      they
      are
      pur-
     
     
      ported
      to,
      be
      barriers
      to
     
     
      trade?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      AK:
      Well,
      they
      can
      talk
     
     
      about
      having
      labor
      stan-
     
     
      dards
      or
      whatever,
      but
      it
      is
     
     
      just
      contrary
      to
      what
      the
     
     
      WTOisall
      about.
      You
     
     
      have
      things
      like
      the
      “Bio-
     
     
      Safety
      Protocol”
      which
      is
     
     
      being
      worked
      on
      to
     
     
      protect
      people
      from
      trans-
     
     
      boundary
      shipments
      of
     
     
      genetically
      engineered
     
     
      food
      and
      other
      things
      like
     
     
      that
      but
      Canada
      and
      the
     
     
      U.S.
      and
      countries
      like
     
     
      that
      have
      invested
      heavily
     
     
      in
      genetically
      engineered
     
     
      food.
      So
      now
      they
      are
     
     
      saying
      that
      these
      “Bio-
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Safety
      Protocols”
      have
      to
     
     
      be
      subservient
      to
      the
     
     
      WTO
      and
      we
      (the
      WTO)
     
     
      are
      not
      going
      to
      make
      any
     
     
      rules
      about
      the
      shipping
      of
     
     
      genetically
      engineered
     
     
      food
      so
      we
      can
      try
      to
     
     
      make
      these
      agreements
     
     
      through
      other
      organiza-
     
     
      tions.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      KB:
      But
      ifthey
      are
     
     
      simply
      superseded
      by
      the
     
     
      WTO
      it
      makes
      no
      differ-
     
     
      ence.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      AK:
      Exactly.
      Another
      of
     
     
      the
      successes
      in
      Seattle
     
     
      was
      people
      coming
      to-
     
     
      gether
      from
      vastly
      different
     
     
      groups
      and
      learning.
     
     
      Learning
      how
      to
      protest,
     
     
      and
      how
      to
      do
      it
      better,
     
     
      and
      how
      to
      use
      our
      soli-
     
     
      darity,
      and
      use
      our
      num-
     
     
      bers.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      KB:
      Personally
      I
      think
     
     
      that’s
      brilliant,
      I
      think
      you
     
     
      can
      never
      have
      too
      many
     
    
   
   
    
     
      protesters,
      we
      will
      cer-
     
     
      tainly
      not
      run
      out
      of
      cor-
     
    
   
   
    
     
      porations
      or
      Evil
      Empires,
     
     
      but
      people
      willing
      to
     
     
      protest
      and
      be
      arrested,
     
     
      well
      they
      are
      sometimes
     
     
      hard
      to
      find.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      AK:
      Particularly
      in
      the
     
     
      last
      thirty
      years
      corpora-
     
     
      tions
      have
      become
      richer
     
     
      and
      richer
      and
      more
      and
     
     
      more
      powerful
      but
      par-
     
     
      ticularly
      in
      those
      last
      thirty
     
     
      years
      corporations
      have
     
     
      begun
      to
      exert
      more
     
     
      influence,
      and
      to
      strategize
     
     
      more
      about
      how
      to
      exert
     
     
      more
      influence
      over
     
     
      government
      and
      govern-
     
     
      ment
      policies.
      So
      you
     
     
      have
      the
      Business
      Council
     
     
      on
      National
      Issues,
      the
     
     
      Fraser
      Institute
      and
      other
     
     
      institutes
      and
      policy
      think
     
     
      tanks
      to
      spout
      off
      this
     
     
      standard
      pro-industry
      _
     
     
      philosophy,
      andtocut
      —
     
     
      government
      spending,
      and
     
     
      to
      lower
      taxes
      for
      corpo-
     
    
   
   
    
     
       
     
    
   
   
    
     
      rations,
      they
      don’t
      say
     
     
      that
      but
      that
      is
      what
      they
     
     
      want.
      So
      through
      all
      these
     
     
      different
      means,
      through
     
     
      advertising,
      through
      hiring
     
     
      Public
      Relations
      compa-
     
     
      nies,
      through
      all
      these
     
     
      different
      campaigns,
      and
     
     
      through
      hiring
      relatives
      of
     
     
      politicians,
      or
      indeed
      from
     
     
      paying
      of
      politicians
      they
     
     
      have
      been
      able
      to
      exert
     
     
      more
      influence.
      And
      at
     
     
      the
      same
      time
      there
      is
     
     
      more
      of
      a
      crossover
     
     
      between
      industry
      and
     
     
      government,
      you
      know
     
     
      practically
      all
      of
      Jean
     
     
      Chretien’s
      cabinet
      are
     
     
      business
      people,
      so
      they
     
     
      are
      all
      of
      this
      frame
      of
     
     
      mind
      that
      business
      is
      the
     
     
      answer,
      and
      if
      we
      have
     
     
      more
      business
      then
      every-
     
     
      thing
      will
      be
      okay.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      LC:
      Well,
      I
      guess
      it
     
     
      shows
      when
      you
      look
      at
     
     
      the
      record
      amounts
      of
     
     
      money
      in
      the
      economy.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      KB:
      There
      is,
      of
      course,
     
     
      a
      certain
      section
      of
      the
     
     
      population
      that
      agrees
      with
     
     
      that,
      that
      believes
      that
     
     
      better
      and
      more
      business
     
     
      is
      the
      savior.
     
    
   
   
    
     
      AK:
      But
      how
      much
      of
     
     
      that
      is
      because
      of
      what
      has
     
     
      been
      told
      to
      us,
      and
      sold
     
     
      to
      us?
     
    
   
   
    
     
      LC:
      Ifyou
      are
      looking
      at
     
     
      people,
      not
      as
      consumers
     
     
      but
      as
      citizens,
      then
      it
      isa
     
     
      much
      different
      thing.
      But
     
     
      even
      as
      consumers
      I
      think
     
     
      there
      has
      been
      a
      failure
      for
     
     
      the
      majority
      of
      people.
     
     
      What
      you
      are
      doing
      is
     
     
      looking
      at
      a
      vary
      narrow
     
     
      range
      of
      things.
      If
      you
      are
     
     
      only
      defining
      yourself
      by
     
     
      growth
      of
      the
      economy,
      as
     
     
      opposed
      to
      by
      the
      quality
     
     
      of
      life
      that
      people
      lead,
     
     
      then
      you
      are
      really
      dimin-
     
    
   
   
    
     
      _
      ishing
      your
      world
      as
      a
     
    
   
   
    
     
      whole.
      If
      you
      look
      at
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Canada,
      we
      do
      have
      this
     
     
      so-called
      ‘growth’,
      even
     
     
      with
      free
      trade
      we
      have
      a
     
     
      record
      amount
      of
      money
     
     
      in
      the
      economy,
      and
      a
     
     
      record
      amount
      of
      U.S.
     
     
      investment.
      But
      when
      you
     
     
      really
      analyze
      it
      you
      see
     
     
      that
      record
      U.S.
      invest-
     
     
      ment
      means
      that
      more
     
     
      U.S.
      companies
      have
     
     
      bought
      out
      more
      Canadian
     
     
      resources
      than
      ever
      before
     
     
      and
      we
      have
      lost
      more
     
     
      control
      over
      our
      resources
     
     
      than
      ever
      before.
      At
      the
     
     
      very
      same
      time,
      the
      living
     
     
      standards
      for
      the
      majority
     
     
      of
      Canadians
      has
      actually
     
     
      gone
      down.
      The
      distribu-
     
     
      tion
      of
      wealth
      in
      this
     
     
      country
      has
      become
     
     
      magnified
      in
      that
      the
      poor
     
     
      have
      gotten
      very
      much
     
     
      more
      poor,
      and
      some
     
     
      people
      have
      gotten
      a
      lot
     
     
      richer.
      And
      along
      those
     
     
      lines
      we
      have
      become
      a
     
     
      much
      more
      inequitable
     
     
      country.
      We
      have
      a
      higher
     
    
   
   
    
     
      degree
      of
      child
      poverty,
      a
     
     
      higher
      number
      of
      food
     
    
   
   
    
     
      banks
      and
      soup
      kitchens
     
     
      than
      we
      ever
      had
      before,
     
     
      they
      are
      becoming
      a
     
     
      permanent
      fixture
      in
      many
     
     
      Canadians
      lives.
      At
      the
     
     
      very
      same
      time,
      very
      few
     
    
   
   
    
     
      -
      Canadians,
      who
      have
     
    
   
   
    
     
      gotten
      richer,
      are
      the
      ones
     
     
      putting
      pressure
      to
      try
      to
     
     
      erode
      social
      programs
      that
     
     
      all
      of
      us
      must
      share
      in,
      to
     
     
      have
      a
      two-tiered
      health
     
     
      care
      program,
      and,
      in
     
     
      effect
      to
      buy
      out
      of
     
     
      Canada,
      to
      lose
      what
      we
     
     
      have
      built
      together.
      When
     
     
      you
      look
      at
      who
      has
     
     
      benefited
      and
      who
      has
      lost
     
     
      you
      see
      that
      the
      pressure
     
     
      on
      social
      programs...
      for
     
     
      example
      the
      Employment
     
     
      Insurance
      (EI)
      system.
     
    

    
     
      We
      have
      gutted
      the
      EI
     
     
      system
      so
      now
      less
      than
     
     
      30%
      of
      unemployed
     
    
   
   
    
     
      Seatie
      —=—=—C~—t=‘
     
    
   
   
    
     
      continued
      on
      page
      8