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BiliiiliiUES EVIDENCE

qi-Ja-iq

The Need of a Second Car Ferry and Bet‘- ter Train Service is Ably Given Be- fore Royal Commission Under

Sir

Andrew Rae Duncan.

Cflntintltllitlii of thte evidence

t-"lls. Yott asked a qtlestion today

taken tiefort- the ltoyal ‘Colntnissititt of one or two of the witnesses ti‘

tSir Antlrett‘ Rat» Duncan. ma") gflllillg at tharlottotuwit oil pddny and Saturday inst.

wit. J. o. llYNiDlMAN. tircaitlent of the Assot-iatetl lloartls of Trade

MR p), t llltlltl. ttie tioxt witness. suggested that the. quctstltin of littrltltile rights had not pcrtlatit-i

bean dufinpil ill tlnja Province as in 50ml? others. THE t‘ll.\lllliiA~.\': titer Mr. ill-utlman‘! _ ‘nu. ili".\'l\\l.~\.\‘: iSo far its the islandis ctillcernetl. they might be defined in purl as a right we would hat-n to export to have the terms oi Confederation fulfIlled as re- gttrds tratisportatioti. THE (‘l-IAIWRIAN: Do ifarlttime rights begin and end there’! lilt. IIYNDNIIAN: l say s0 fur as the Island is eonccflietl. Until the car ferry ctttite into operation we hlni a tcry uncertain service. For many wort-rs they had to resort to crossing lil'l\\'('.i.'ll the Capes with little ire llttllla‘. To have the lady passengers alttl the tntlfls and bag- gage carried across, yott paltd the Donlililotl Government for that pri- vilege. alttl the men passengers helped the crew in battling the iiottt. Sir Robert Borden matte the statement [llili the terms 0t‘ C011‘ fetierzttitin titttl not been honored. that Prince Etlwurtl Island hnd not been trotttetl fltirly ily tiither Lib- crttl or (‘oliservtitlve Governments in the nitttttit- .of transportation, alttl that it was not a nttttter of cost lint ti matter of honor. Wheii _ terry‘ was put till the rottte 111111211, it trtts largely us an ex- _ tit-rilltettt. Very |'(1\\' people at the iiillt‘ ilitttilllll a tioat ctittltl be built that could tlnvlgtite the Straits during the winter settstill. This var ferry lllls proven a very suc- cessful experiment lti tiegotititlilg the ire "li whiter. but when ‘site wall littilt there were matters at thattillii- that were not thought oi‘. Ear instance, the atltomtilille trai- r

IWliat are

THE (‘ilAlRJ/iiihthl: Iiatl you 1111 klllliflfilltt- of attltitlttiiiiltis ill i'l‘llil'tl Etlittird island In 1916?

‘.\ill.'llYNl).Vl1A‘N: No. For sonli‘ tears atttomtttiilcs were ]ll'0illll1lt‘1l In title ‘Province. Now that boat today is inadequate to take care of 111917111111‘. tit‘ this Province. anti l think you titight licnr a statement 1111i Wits filed with the. RillllWily l-t-‘t ivititt-i- dealing with i110 11111‘ 111W- l tireptiretl this and prtrsetitrtl

11111 I111‘ time to ttie Railway tifI|-'ltivti otlr little Island. 1119i’ "1111 11

t-llair- they hati tiresenteti Clllllile in colt-

iiection with our difficulties to the railway authorities. 1i may say that l have been to the railways. and before the Board of Railway (‘filllllll.~"iltlliel‘hi, at different times. flftlt-Pllilllg these matters. We have had difficulties continually with transportation right through from Sackville. We have been pressing ycar in atld year out for, relief, and we tlo not seem to make‘ very much progress. You asked a while ago if anything has been pre- sented to the officials in regard to tottrists coming here. ti will quote, from a report of 1924. XVe formed ‘l Tourist Association ill 1923. We, felt that it was useless to endeavor to tiring tegrista to this Province with the facilities then in effect. and we had a conference with the railway officials, and l will read‘ an extract from what occurred at that conference. ‘Mr. L. S. Brown, general manager at tMoncton, ZVIr. Weldon. the traffic manager, Mr. Ilztriter. anti other ratilway officials cattle lterc at that time. Twenty Iilfflllliufv‘? attended and brought up the tltutter of the Province-wide e11- tleavor tint forward by the Tourist Association with a view to bringing a large nutilher of tourists to the Province that season. iVe stressed the importance of giving to the ls- lailtl the passenger train service re- :-t1§-vt‘t| by the other Provinces, anti the tielegutes were assured that this tttatter would be taken tip with the lltiartl, anti that next year would sflt- a tit-finite tlmprovclnont ill the. passenger service. ‘

Tilitl t(‘li‘Al‘ltii"A‘N: ‘\\’h‘o {stated that?

Ill/lit. ilY-NDlifANr Mr. L. ‘S. Ilrowtl. the general manager for the Atltintit- region. ‘We stated to these officials that we might as well set-up our Tourist Assnciutlioii

a5 tn attempt to bring tourists liit-re with the coltdititilts that ex- listed. l am in totit-lt with many

itottri-sts entitling here. 11nd I 111131‘ tiliiiplalnts. more than others l1rob~

'llll_V would. that are cotttlntttilly ililnde both ill regard to the freight (and tiasatillgtir service. I have

itit-vt-r iliet ti tourist who frame to {the Inland yet who did not. com~ ,plahi. \\'e have had ltltimbers 0i Parllttttt-tit. Senators anti others l\\'h[i hnvo clttid, ‘tWlly do you lillow

‘this condition to c_xist'! We irvottidlrt. Hlilllll l; in the West; there irould be n rebellion." They

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Charlottetown, P-E-l-

i1 r1111! delltzht to spend a vacation 11619. —- but never gain do they want the experience of getting over to the iltsland and back again. Re- 1391111)’. only within a few weeks, M11111"; over here as late as June 29th, it was a bit rough and when they arrived at Borden they could no; land. There wall a bit of a storm on, and the sent; were coili- 1118 11D. and they kept the passen- gers on. Then they decided to take them below and put them off from there. They got ill about two o'clock in the nlornliitg. One lady who made the trip said to me. ‘iNever again will l bring my cllii-

dreli to Prince Edward ‘island if l lntist endure such an experience 11-‘ . that."

'l'1H.‘E lOl-lAllR/MAN I blame the railway the storm?

IMR. HYNDMiA-N: »No. but tit we had ‘the service we tlbuuld have 1118)’ wouldn't notice the storm. They would come through in their cars.

'i‘ll1l<3 CHAIRMAN: But wait a lllUlllPlll. ‘fllesc petiplt: bad to get on the boat?

lug the pleasure of seeing _Capt Read 119113, our. Mcktnnoii. in» r1111 know‘! '- lwn. ‘tvi-oximtdtvi We have not defintlte word that he will be 118"!- MR. HY-NDMAN: The car ferry “Prince Edward island" was p111 2n the present route as tin experi- ment and has filled the purport-f- ;teliitinstra‘tlttg that n car terry c811 ‘ic built that will meet all tlle rt-.- qtlireinetlts. ‘We cannot do better m thbi regal-d thlln l|tiUlU ,Cnpt

hilt. l‘lY‘NI)l\tl1A1N: Yes, they got John L. itcntl. tllustcr of the cai- off the can; at Tormentiiie, and terry. who l.ll a 111M111‘ to 1111-‘ i119“ Hot on the boat, alttl they cattle off ii the tvitltcr of 1923 stated the

You do not company for

and had to get. on the cars again; following:-

but it‘ a tllroltgti truill were put on "Still ztrlotht-r real-anti why we 1111*)’ would not have this iIICOIIVBIFI- titould proceed willi caution, is encc, We have been adyngaliflg that the present boat is only an 11X‘ 1115111 111011?! a through service. lperfnient, and we are 111111111111; have a resolution here that was more about tier llCftéPtS every year. Passed at the ltinritinlc Board of Lust wilt-tor we never missed ti

Trade nleetltlg, representing the whole Maritime Provinces, back as 1111‘ 11S 1919. and I will be glad to llle it with you. it will give. you some itiea of what we have been 11163111118 for. it is to the effect that. “whereas the Province Qt ‘Prince Edward Island has suffered greatly for many years ptist from lnfertor passenger service on the

l-ip, and everyone bad about made tip their lllilld that the car i911‘)! left nothing to be tit-sired, excelill ‘bait a duplicate boat be -bttllt, Al- ready this title tins tit-oven that she 5 not at all suitable to keep up tlifl servce iii a real hard winter. and l for one atn not satisfied wiith her. for she has neither the shape nor the power to give HIItlSEIICUiOH, and car ferry as well as at the conned.‘ 1i am sure that had she been S1131)‘ 1111: pOillls on the mainland. and ed like the "Eat-l Gray" with the ivlierens the car ferry service tormsglXcetition ot‘ tier bow. 11nd with the connecting link thus makingltiitirti power, there would have been ll ptis-sfble for Prince Edward 15-h dtifftiren-tstory to tell. We 8111111111 lmtti to i-etrt-Ivti nn ddpqunte ggr-itlelllllllti a larger and better bout. V161‘. alttl wheremi the many lrniwlttl more beam, capable of iiav- conveniences and delays in traveil-ll-lig three tracks to carry 20 cars, ing to and front the Island in thelnstctilt of 12. alttl with double the lift-st have caused inconvenience 10 power of this boat." the travelling public aitd lnterferedi TllE ('\IIA-IRMA‘N: Is Capt. Read greatly with the [Qnflgt [yadfi ;an officer of the tiottlpany‘?

“rtptc tnrrdprpypAN; p, this a m.‘ .\t‘lt. llYNtltklllN: lie is an offi- stiltttfon you a 1 reading? ‘cinl of the C. N. It. and the master

IVIR. lrlYNiti-M N: Title iii the re- 1J1 1111‘- 11111‘ 1°11‘?- solution, passed as far back as THE ‘CHAIRMAN: And he thinks 1.1119. "And whereas Prince Edward you need another boat? ' Island has become part of the (mun. MR. HYNDMAN: lie takes that dian Naticonal System. the travel- View- Tlle 111111911!‘ 11* m" 111191111‘ 1111: nutitlc are entitled to equafete- We are asked Occasionally 1'1 service whgn travelling to andtlle Board of Tratle,—\vc were air from part5 m1 the tcnnadtan Nation. preached last year by Capt. Read. at Railways a5 regard-g bmh ctpgsalsking if we would ttot agree to of car alttl speed; and whereaghane the second passenger trill as it is now possible to run stantl-lwllllllmwll 1" Oclnher- t“ amlw 111d 11.181156 car on the railways M11118 1111119111911! 111' 11918111 when Ship‘ the Island; Tl-LERIEFORE BE {Tinients commence. it we permitted ittoscvyttrn that this ‘Board strong-iillill. we might as ivcii any we will

‘yer consulted zlnctlglneer as to tie practicability of the present ar- angements?

AIR. HYNDM-AN: Ul. any reports.

THE ClltAiRM-AN: Why?

MR. l-IY1Z\'=D.\iiAN: That is a mat. cr that should be dealt with. no louht. but we have been looking t.‘ our lticnlbers til‘ ‘Pllfilflllltfllt and n other ways trying to have these iltlttt-rs atljttstctl, feeling that we tad a (‘lltllll that should rcctlivc lll.l'liilt)ll.

‘tittttl ClfAtlLi/IAN: Ilut appar- ‘titty you have. never tested the real suliintincc of your claim.

.\llt. ilYNtIM-AN: lt scents ‘stilt’ ivitltili-t to us. I have never cross- ..~d titer tu 'i‘0rnlentine and gone up .h:1t title that was really, well,~— l tiuve been atshanlcll to travel with l>1"1l11t‘ from outside, conning alttl zoitic. 111111 to say that I was a Prltlt-t- ‘Edtvttrd Islander. You would lllillit we were a. lot of tiutcasts.

Tilt-i til“l\l‘il.\'fAl\': I would not take it ‘qu-tc so seriously.

.\llt. IIYNDAIAN: We do feel it

We haven't.

5U. TllE (‘HAIRJMANI if you feel it so, why have you not taken the prertttttltitl of getting a sound prnt- ticui engineer" to mnlq: a reptirt t.) You. l'.t‘st of all. ac to whether this partiit-ttlar arrangement is an tip-iv- datt- one; and sttttllltliy, it’ it is. wht-tller it is titling worked in uny- lilllll-‘I till.‘ an efficient way?

Mil. lt'\'.\'l).\l.-\N: 'i 1121i is a good iiilsgcstioil and I thank you for l1. Mr. (‘hztirlnaln

'l‘.lli<l Cti.»\lIt'.\l»A.\': I ant stirpris- ed that it hall not occurred to you long ago.

1.\ilt. il\'.\'l).\iA‘N: We felt that i Wilts tip to our memliem ot’ Parlia- lliirlll,

TllE CHAIR-MAN: You might tru-st yoursclve a little more. if you think ol‘ your nlenibcrs of Par- llatiirzlt a little less. you tnight matte ulore progress. You see. your evtitlence is all qultc useful no fut‘ as tilt‘ getter-at feeling of the coili- munfty or of visitors is concerned. but it is not of much use to I16 from n tiractticttl point of view.

‘Mil. HYNDMAN: I can quite untltirstantl that. Tlliu‘ fZl-lAllt-ATAN: i tlilnk you

had bcticr leave that pout to be

ly l‘1.‘t.'Ollllli'<‘ll(l to the tnattagtrnlent1115611111 0111‘ ltillsseitgei‘ and mail that Prince Edward 151cm] be service altogether. and adopt a granted tip to date ‘service in flying machine for the malls-

THE CiiAiRililANi \\'hy? y

every particular including the NPR. IHYNDNPAN: Once we ills-

transfer of passenger cars on the ferry, s0 that passengers will be carried through to destination." That was carried uttaninlotlsly.

THE CHAIRMAN: What hap- pened after the resoluttlon was passed?

1M‘R..l-lY.\'lJ'MAN:lt was filed with the management at Monctorl and with the Railway Department at Ottawa. but nothing has been done.

THE CHLAiRdiIAN: Did you seri- ously expect that anything would be dune tiy itiercly sending ‘in n re- solution?

MR. TIYNDMAN: No, we have been carrying that tllrottgh to our tilenliiers of tPtlrlianitiltt.

llllS$‘COl.ll10L‘tlOl1_ wlitli the Ocean, Idtuited. and passengers would b I detained at Sackville over 22 hours.

THE (‘l-IAIRAIIAQQ: , the choice of one or two trips. could you not. choose that trip which would make the coilnecttioti? ‘MR. llY-NDMAN: That would he ‘the night trip anti they are nil anx- ious to get clear of the night trip. Later lll the season we brought this before the Iltiilit-‘tiy (Yolilniis- siion. ltlltl asked for a colitinuatit-t- a-t lea-st tater than we got it last year up till November. When the boat went on at first we stoppctl

If you had

THE CHAIRMAN: Didn't you 111 (11'11J111‘1‘- 111111 1111i 11111 \'(1111n“'m~'“ follow that up _by oral represelita- 1111111 11111 11111 1111i’ 1111 her sectiutl tiotls to the railway contpaliy? 11111 ~ '1‘11l1l 11111111 i111 11 “"1151! 11"“

vice than we had before the car ferry came on. The boats that used to collie down ran right uii to tCllristuias, and we could gel 11111‘ mallls through more quickly. We therefore contend that with the i11- crease of freight traffic. and in crease of passenger and automobile traffic ,the cor ferry at present does ttot by any means serve the business of the Province. THtE OIFAIWMAN: llave you any stntfstics to show us what the traffic is? ‘MR. HYNDIWAN: The only way would be ‘to get them from the Railway. i‘ have found great 111'"- flculty in getting information of that kind from the Railway.

THE (‘tl-IAIRLWA-N: Have you

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Try Us First PRESCRIPTIONS

MR. IIYNDMAN: We did. l have taken that before varlotts bodlieei.

"filll-l filfAlRlilAtNz But did the Maritime. conference of the Boards of 'l‘ratle appoint a deputation to go to interview the railway com- pally w-tjtlt that resolution?

Mill. IIYYNDAI-AN: I ant quite sure they followed that up.—the secretory ;tltat would be his duty.

’l‘lIiE (iltAlRlM-AN: Did you ap- point ut that ilieetiilg a deputation to prooctaed to interview the raili- way utitltoritlcs‘!

tliitR. IiYNIMI-AN: Not particular- ly at that meeting. no.

THE CHAilRMA-N: .l hould have thought that would be the first step. I am not surprised if railway ntanagers pay no attenttlon to resolutions coming in like that. I should have thought the Maritime Boards of Trade, it they regarded it’ as a ‘serious matter, would have appointed n deputation to wait up- on the railway company.

‘MR. l-IYiNiDMtmN: I have no doubt that Wits done, but I cannot say positively that it was.

THE (illAiiRMlAlNr if you cannot any, positively, I must assume that it was not done.

-M'R. IIYNIDMAN: We wanted that passed ourselves, and we tol- lowed that up from here, through the Charlottetown Board of Trade. I might any that before the car ferry was ptit on the question of a tunnel was talked of tlinle and again. At every election they were talking titnnel, and an estimate was nlatte 0|,’ fifty to seventy-live ntlllions to lyulld a tunnel. l claimed ‘that the car ferry would serve the purpose and would take the place of a tunnel, and the ex- pense ti-s small in conlpartson. Ilut while the "Prince Edward Island" is a satisfactory boat, she is not

dealt with by the engineer. whom

I understand we are to have the

advantage of hearing tomorrow. -l\ill. HYNDMAN: Then there is

card the sctrolltl passenger [flp we theqtiesiiitiil of a ferry sllllsiltllttl.‘(M11011 if anything happens this boat we‘ e have no sitbstitttte. except this 31.211117 111111 i1l1l11<11t1l1119

the “Seotia!"

THE (flL-HIUIAN: What scow is that’! I have lit-vet‘ heard of her.

‘MR. H\'.\'I.“.\‘IAI\‘: It is. our only substlrtittt‘ car ferry; an open boat. with no deck aeeontlllotlatioil. I think our friend ill‘. Mt". fttcitiltan here has had experience of her.

Till‘)? (‘»ll.»\lit1.\i-AN: I shtiuitl not have to rely on my taolletigtte. Tit‘. Aichiillttll to get ctiitlettt-t- lit-ll. slttlttld lie given to the (‘tililittltsltiu lit-re. in Print-e EtllVllftl litlatid. \\'htll is the “St-titlitl?“

MR. llYNiiihltAt. She is a eittititn- titittt, n ,,-t~ti i‘tllI iy ‘rtiviilll, lltlilt '11 run the fiiliiifil)’ t-zii-g- on, and hrottgtit into ttst- if anything grit-s

wrong wiifll the ferry. She was ftirtlterly tiperatetl at hiulgrzlve.

'l‘Iil1l (‘iI.1\l‘lt.\ll\N: Does she take motor ears its well?

.\iR. llYNiDAiAN: Yes.

‘IVHE CHAIRMAN: There are two sets of railrflt

‘hill. i-iYiNDM-AN: Yes, sho was

silt-chilly fitted, alttl there was con- sitlttfilblfi expcrttliturc oil her the lioCkflr'ii think $75,000 able her to fit tin when the “Prince. ildwartl island" ivas away for re- ]l.lll'~‘. We f.‘0lltf‘lltl that that boat is‘ no; a sitltable substitute.

THE (vliAlnilkiANl ill what res- peel?

i.\lR. llYNDNiAN: ‘Not. capable. ill-re in Juno thin year she could not make the trip on ‘sehetltlle.

Til-Fl -(‘1lIAliRI\'iA‘N.' lio you mean that she tins not fhc steatu-plitrvcr?

MR. 1'IYIIIANIAN: \\’t-il. in u sell we conetldtir she is not seaworfhy

Til-lit] tClliAilthiAN: Have you tiatt u report on tier?

111R. llYNtllthlAN: t)lily the re- porttrotll what is gettcral public feeling, as well as those fatnillar with marine matters.

'l‘iI‘E‘(‘.1i*IAlR‘M‘AN: You can say that the general public does ltot like gotlng on it. but you cannot say that she is unseaworthy.

-Ml't. HYNDMAlV: I say that in .-toriuy weather she could not ertisfl. That should be stifficient evidence that rhe is not seuworchy, when in June she could not make the cross- ing alid keep tip hcr schedule.

TIIE OHIAIRMAN: There are oc- casfolls when a storm is strgreat that the mot-t senworthy boat of its type would no; venture out.

Mil. liYtN-DMiANz i.‘ don't think there are storms like that here. TIIE OHIA-IRWIAN: You do not lliive those storms here‘! That may be. ‘But you have to frame your

adequate today. We have the

PROMPTLY statement of Captain Read that that boat is not the boat that b6

would like. . i THiE tol-rAldtMA-N: You know . who Captalin Read is, but i do not. IMR. HYNDM-AN: He is the ciiP- taln of the car ferry .

TH! CliiAifRMA/N: Ta-ke the pntnii to tell me these little thiiiss- Are you now going to read the statement made by Clilit- R9115- 111°

The REKALL POBo-

“Conservative

own conwctron.

stint car ferry, the "Scotla" would not have the power to negotiate the Straits.

Illlflflfl that there were days when ltlltls boat wan -nh=t'ttlting and when you d'tl rot have any contact with

> h v q KUDAK 570a: 57g the mainland at all? mitiiirlcilrivdnllilltl Yes. .. 44%“... . . ._. . MR HYNtDM-AN: There were m“; ogdmtvpdtrq; Are we hllv- several days. and if she did not

statement in a way that carries its

Mil. HYNDMAN: If that limit were nailed on to substitute in win- ter. tt anything happened the pre-

THtE CHAIRIMAN! Does that

lililias title was very late lll liltiklllsl ‘

-the passage. and the passengers were held over until next morning.

TiHiE Ol-MIRMAN: Have you kept any record of that?

record?

‘AIRMHYNDNIIAN: The Railway would have a record. l had one rigllt here, a clipping from a news-

be quite satisfied that we accept the rectirds of the railway eoinpaiit‘ in all these matters‘!

‘MR. HYNDMAN: ‘i think they ‘would give you an accurate record.‘ . TIlE CliAliltMAN: l um uskingi, if you would accept their recordsf ion these matters‘! ,.

MR. HYNDMAN: Yes.

‘ContinuingMr. I-Iyndlnail took up the winter train service anti the tie-up on the litter; after SHOW’, ‘storms. the very first storm. the linen were

blocked. tWc have not the cqltqi- nielit nor the rtntdtlctl to keep the line open.