(Continued from e‘... n.

I lerae acreage in lfalwiue Bey?‘

andthercarsabcutoilmoaoresin Malpeque Bay, including the mud bottoms as wall as the nard bot-

“By 1915 some disease occurred in the Malpeque Bay areas, evident- 11 from the importationoi oysters from the New England States for flanting purposes, and by 101'! there was not a single live oyster that you could find anywhere unless "; was at the headwaters of the rivers. 1mm 101'! until 1900 at least, nobody could secure, or did secure, any oysters in UflPNlle 36!. .

Attempts At Rehabilitation

"f might say that as one-quarter

owner in that original oyster area secured in 1871 and 1812 by Mr. Pope, we made attempts at different times to introduce oysters, with the result that the oysters would live overaperiodofperhapsfivecrsix months, and then die.

That was the situation until 1020, when under a permit from the Do- minion Department o1 Fisherissl secured on the south coast oi. the Island a number of barrels of oy- sters and planted them on our areas, andby 1027 or liifiiwebcgsn toget lust a few native oysters In 1024, the Department cf Fisher-l’: had de- cided that they would make an st- lempt to bring back the oyster areas of that province and for that pur- ges they submitted an agreement

the Stewart Government. I have the agreement her, and it is prac- tically the same agreement that my hon. friends signed. There was just one clause, with regard to reserva- tion of areas for mussel mud pur- poses, that seems to have been add-

in the latter agreement. At any r ... the late Hon. Mr. Stewart ra- fuscd to sign the ‘ I rs- member him calling -me over to dis- cuss it. I told him there were no oysters there at that time, and he declared there was not sufficient safeguard in the speement for the fishermen, and he would not sign it lmder those conditions.

“Our friends opposite came into

wer in 1927, and on Feb. 2'1, i028.

ey signed this agreement. But I believe the Junior member from Szmmeirsids (Dr. MacNeill) was a

mber o; His MaJeatyZs Executive Council at that time and his col- agues also sat around the Council rd. Here is the aINemmt that they signed, and which two rem - utter-wards they tried to tell the peo- ic of ufu country they never served to. Because here, right in the 081N- mui b he provision for the leas- hg by lie Dominion t d Ins oyster areas of the h-ovince.’ (Applause). ,

“I have hare, also, the niiflllbd of Council, dated Rb. 1'I, 102B, which m passed by my hon. friends, and which reads as fohows:

roves-m auras-numeral: ro noemnou oova-amvrswr

. _,,--.__.

"The Council having had uu-i ion the advblill-

a a H. E

Iae Ipdesdi Government ca its partmustmakeallnecessarysur- veys and ascertain the

"sf all live oyster beds and also sllarcssnotproducing . the extent of areas that should be reservedf mussel mud. That

our government. ‘mat the Gov- ‘ erumeut oi Canada ahnll have

the control and tion oi , the oyster beds, and will develop , sud improve

TIIMOI‘ YEARS. Ivreh as!"- mcut to embrace such other terms and conditions as are properly Incidental thereto h order to mieguard the hieavest of our oyster fishermen."

"Is there any reservation there. with respect to leasing the beds?” in. sharp asked, amid applause.

Mr. lea: "That'i.g not all the

agreement."

HISTORIC DOCUMENT

Hon. Mr. Sharp: ‘That la the or- "ier in Council. authorising the agreement that was lined ten days later. on Fob. l1. 1038 by my hon- Iriends. That will go down in his- lory as long as the Executive Conn- reeords arc kept. showing that

on forever the rights

i | i

).

m. Isa: “Not in the leasing; the

leasing is reserved." Ion. Mr. Sharp: "Not to Iflnt g of the oystI areas EXCEPT » WAY 01" LIASI F03 A ram CI BARS’. that was the reserva- you made." (Appirvse). I know is pimiahmobt. but my hon

wllljusirbavstctskstAnd Iligfilvllfliedfldlgfflil in

(Loud Conservative Applause). "In these days," continued Mr , iepresen tives of the Maritime Pnvinoes have been g0- ilig in frequent delegations to Ot- tswa to fight our claims on the basis that cur natural resources have been traded away tc Western When lands of the Hud- son Bay Company have been out to Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Al- berta and the boundaries of Quebec and Ontario have been extended north te the Arctic Circle. all of which in the years gone by when we vmic one of the five provinces of Canada, we had an equity in. which was transferred without any con- sideration or consultation with us in connection with the matter. Now here is an oocesicnon which the government of this Pwvilm hi" given sway our own his. w! asked for hmlllofld inflreturn‘, “Cal keep as crm you yore doing”: that. in effect. is gu that they asked for. so far ll the fisher-men's rirbis II

ref cll which I have read. to teutofnroasthatshouldberc- served for mussel mud.” But one!) the survey is made, once the mud areas are for the farmcrl. then the Government of this Pro- vince. so far as havinl‘ lllylhllll whatever to any in the matter. ll out of the picture. “Tr survey of the Malpeque Bay area was made in the summer 01 1M8 by the federal engineers. l-lere I have a plan of pert of the Mal- pequo Bay area. It is divided into

~" gnd " -- each one marked on the plan. Malpoqlle Bay was surveyed in this way from gbbm to shore, and when that was done and the necessary mud areas were reserved for the farmers. the Government ceased to have any- thing whatever to do with those areas." (Applause).

ANSWERS CRITICISM

“I have been blamed. as one of the members of the Stewart Gov- eminent, for being a party W this gurvgy, and I believe an indigna- tion meeting was held at Conway when I was not present. and some b1 the people were deeply sorry for ‘poor Sharp.’ In fact I believe the member from O'I..eary (Mr. Den- nis) went so far as to say W“ the only twp representatives of the Stevart Government present at the time our oyster areas were leased were "Mr. Stewart and Mr. Sharp. and Mr. Stewart being dead nat- umny w, Sharp's statement would have to be taken with a. grain of salt.” (Laughter).

m, gpeaknr, you don't have in take my statement with ‘a grain of salt.’ At the meeting held in 1031 there were seven persons pres- en-t. The rxvvty Minister oi Fish- eries, Mr. Ilmmd, never discussed with a ginrlo individual, the rela- tive merits of leasing. What he di‘. was to tell us the areas he 111N110- ed to lease. He said “we are going to lease at first five and one-half acres in order that the fishermen and the farmers living near the shore will get the first 009019111- ity. We are going to keep At out of the companies’ hands, as it was un- der the provincial leasing pro- gramme. I-"ive. and one-half acres are all any one individual can get. We are going to cha 1e 01.00 be)‘ sere per year for the firs-t three years. After the/t we are going ‘w have so much per barrel. in be ar- ranged later, rental paid on the product of the beds." That was Mr. Fund's statement. and, as I stated. there were seven present at that meeting. including the Parliamentary reuresentativm for Queens County. I have a latter from hkn today stating last i= exactly the Dominion Government’. g. that the only res- ervation made in Number I agree- ment of February mos is with re- spect to the survey of the areas. ‘If you went, for example, to Rusticc, Savage Harbor, or Pownai, where the areas have not been sur- veyed, you could make application for a~ piece of ground. The area you apply for must be surveyed, be- cause otherwise they have no chance of checking up on it. Then you apply for 1 subsection 8, or whatever the numbers may be ycu lease the arezs through tin Dcm"1ion Government. This Provmce has nothing further to do with it. Once the survey is made, the thing is finished. That i; the story.

"hlicre than that, I made it my business to get the interpretation of several lawyus in connection with this matter, and I could read your m. Iibimdfs report, which bears out exactly what I say. I

stated that they never Ilillitlsd thelmsirugoftheoyateraleasof the Province and that the Ibd-

3E nnzgzrsgo ‘i? giillrl-il.‘ .3

CROCODILE TEARS

"I may say. with regard to the Conway meeting." Mr. sharp con- tinued unid further applause, "that B 11116 number "of Liberal li- ticisns were present, including the member from O'Lea.ry. Iewyers, doctors, druggista-some of them who had never been near enough to salt water to wash their first. in the last twenty years-were there. They were all "sorry for. Sharp." There were wonderful rumors in NflrdtotheninnbercfacresI had secured. One fellow said I had sot 160 acres of the best beds in the Bay. Another I had obtained leases for every member of my family and even some of my nieces. The meeting was held in a district where I had got eighty per cent of my support. and “poor Sharp” wasn't there. He was on one of those "picnics" te Ottawa at the time. on business nnecicd with the unemployment interests oil-his Province: so he couldn't answer the criticism at the t, nway meet- ing, and he is taking the opportun- ity of doing it here, today." (Ap- piause).

"What I did was to secure five and one-half acres immedktcly adjoining the old lease secured in 1872. There was no member of my family that I know of, who sc- oured any acres except one son who has an equal acreagein a. differ- ent part of the district. That is the extent of participation in the leasing policy, about which so much was said at the Conway meeting. "I think, Mr. Speaker, thatl have proved to the satisfaction of this House and the people of this Pro- vince that we never had anything to do with the leasing cf the mud areas, the oyster areas, or any other areas on the shore front around ‘this province. in any way, shape or form." (Applause).

Mr. Campbell's Attitude

"We get back now to the state- ment mdde by the leader of the Opposition at that Board of Trade, meeting to which I have referred. I think his memory was a little better them the memory of thei members from Surnmcrside, both senior and junior, and also the member from Ollerify- 5° f" l5 the Tigfiish member (Mr. T. A. Campbell) is ooncemed, I must say that he has a. legal mind, and he never had any intention cf com- mitting hirnself as to whether P"- mission had to be secured from the Provincial Government. I never heard him‘ make any statement of that kind. What he did suggest, was that the whoiething might be ultra vires. If so, that is the worst con- demnation that was ever levelled against n Liberal government tran- aaction in this Province at any time since responsible government was first established. What will it mean to the two hundred lease holders who took over those leases imgood fall-h. iilvifll 0!- pmded thousands of dollars in or- der to bring those arms Into culti- vation, if this agreement, 81KB"! after due consideration by the Saunders-lea Government, proves ultra vii-es!” (Applause).

Mr. Campbell: “The Dominion Government surely wouldn't tab“? my suggestion."

Hon. w. Sharp: "r nurse-st that you were too wise to commit yourself, but the medics-legal light from Bummerside didn't make any bones about it. The junior member from that district (Dr. MIONGiH) said he went to Malpeque Bay to see a sick man. When he waited on him the man couldn't pay his bill. and my hon. friend surgested that he got him a half barrel of oysters instead, Tm man said he could not do it until the tide was low, as all the were leased and he couldn't run any oysters-

Dr. Macfleill‘; Responsibility

"I am sorry the hon. member is not in his seat. because I intended to suggest that on that occasion he must have had a twinge of con- science. He sat around this Coun- cil Board seven years ago. and the Act which made that thing possible. It would be up to him. surely, to make some restitu- tion to that poor patient of his. It is only right that a man in his fin- ancial position should do so. He should at least have shown his sorrow anti repentance for havin! put thrcufrh sum a. transaction- One thing he might do, is done-ls that farm which he once held at Wlnchesters CHIN?- Whlch flit! 011i mu» Malricquc any. and brill a fisher-men's hospital on it. so that all the wives and sons and (180811- tcrs of fishermen who might be- come sick. could get free medical service". (Laughter). "I would suz" gest further that he donate the profits he received from that c78- ter company he secured in front cf that cape, as a. fund to carry the hospital on. Hr: miirht put a light on wp o; m; hospital, so that it would guide the iishermerrs ships to pOfl’. slid seeing it, they would know that all was well. 111d "W? their wives and familfcs were being looked after while they We" "NY- Tben, when my hon. friend passes on, a headstone could be erected to his memory, inscribed with the words: "He was c good doom’; leave the rest to Providence."

Not A Political Issue

& much for the criticism to which this Govemment has been mbjgmq h, 1,119 gentlemen who tllrnselvea were the responsible parties to the cysts: leasing lime- mcnt. Frankly, I d: not think my hon. friends have anythifll W 5° afraid of, they made a bargain with the Dominion Government at a time when there were no oysters in Malpeque Bay. 'f'hexc are no 0y!-

ters there yet except in the areas first are be cultivated by i81- vate individ or by theaioiosic-

al Board of Canada." m. Ies: “Will my hon. friend

pennit l" question?" Hull.

__ THE CZHARLQTTETOWN GUARDIAN

question-J

mfimmw‘ i“.‘i"i".."fiil° “S” are and should have the support _ ~» "P cfovarymauinthlsprevineerc- _,,’j,‘,{f.'f "i “m? "imw krtgg$vr$cgerevvvg%iiéuw gush; use political atfliation, m‘, ‘mam, w“ ,, (‘mum “he 0“- or who was responsible for the , y’ ' ‘

Mr. Lea: “I am asking what, in m? hm M8116‘! Opinion; the con- dition of that bay would be. if protection hadn't been given and the Government form of cultiva-

0111)‘

ly or not. I have always believed insayingiustwhatfmean. In 1028 the survey was made. In 1029 amanbythenameofDodgewas brought here by the Federal De- partment te examine into the areas. Prior to that, the oyster on‘!!! bad dropped from 48,000 to less than 12,000 barrels in the whole Province, 5,000 or 0,000 of which was coming from the West and East rivers, so that we were only getting about 4.000 barrels. from Malpeque Bay.

rim srauvrsn MENACE

‘The disease, of course, was rc- spcnsibls for a big part oi that decrease, but we had another en- Bmy. the starfish. ‘This fish ap- Pvored in "Malpeque Bay about 40 y!!!" H80. and since that time there has been a gradual decrease in reproduction of oysters in the Bay. Lobster fishing had been al- lowed in the Bay, with the result that millions of starfish had grown up there. They covered practically

the whole of the Bay. The only-

blace where there are no starfish today is at the heads of rivers or in close to the shore where the water warms up in the summer season. The result is that the only oysters that are coming beek to- day under natural conditions are the oysters at the heads of the Grand River and Bideford River, and perhaps a few places nearer shore- In the middle of the Bay there is no reproduction whatever, on account of the starfish.

"I have a report on the catch of starfish, and I may say that the Biological Boa-rd attempted to fight this pest. They caught as many ‘as 10,000 starfish a. day. They were only able to hold down the particular areas where they were working, and during last year Dr. Needler has given the thing up entirely. His idea. now is to grow oysters at the heads of the rivers with ordinary paper cartons dipped in a solution of cement and lime, and either keep those oysters for fifteen months close in-shore where the starfish can- not get them, or grow them under wire. After the oyster has grown to one and a half inches it is reasonably immune, because the starfish itself is not over one and three-quarters inches in diameter, and they cannot dc the same dam- age in that case as they can to in- fan: oysters.

‘ma: ONLY couasr:

"In our experiments we took down the makings of. hund- reds of oysters from the heads of rivers, only t0 find everything cleaned up the following year. We have quite a number next year thatwere wintered in wire crates. We hope to keep them there until next fall at least ,and if they reach one and a half inches in diamete we,wi1l spread them out. If that is not satisfactory, how are you going to bring back the oysters in the Bay? Either the Dominion Gov ment must take the re-

bility and catch those oys-

ters, ow them to a size that they ~will immune from starfish. and then

Lplant them in the Bay, or they ust drag the Bay sufficient- ly togct rid of the starfish pest. That seems to be ‘an impossible task; at any rate, Dr. Needler has had one boat fishing all the time without making any ,.nessicn on the starfish in a small area.

umlervthe conditions I have de- scribed. If the Government can be persuaded to do first. and leave the ,, ‘ers until there is a suffi- cient quantity before allowing fishermen to come in, it will be all right. But where the late Lib- eral Government fell down in making the agreement with the Dominion Government, was in ne- glecting te see that the small holder should have his area sur- veyed without any cost. The junior member from Summerside stated the cost was $100. It does not cost that much, but it costs money, and if my hon. friends had had the interests of the poor fishermen at heart they would have seen that he was relieved of this financial ob- ligation. Afterwards, when he be- came a producer, a certain amount of that money should have gone into the coffers of the Provincial Government, But my hon, friends did not see to that either. They looked after the mud areas; but the fisherman was left out of the picture. And the result is that he has got to pay for the survey and put down his cement markers himself." (Applause).

WHY THE AGITATION?

Mr. IePage: "Does my hon. friend believe that the Dominion Government is not interested in production in those beds at the present time."

Hon. w. Sharp: "That is exact-

present time. They are catching thcapatandsellingatccsttothe lease holders; who can only get five and one-half acres each, that is all. I believe the Dominion Gov-

ernment is doing all right. But why this political agitation?

A Member: “They are after Sharp!" (laughter).

Hon. m. Sh : "That's the answsrJguesaIhspeIhavedis- posed of that matter for all time."

). "I may say that the

nt is expending year for leasing purposes, after four years of marketed 00

(Apple Federal 012,000 a and last

w. stun: "Y ll". us: "ill h lulled

The only way is to grow the oysters e1

which left Malpeque Bay arcs for Mosley River.) This is s total of 833 barrels and includes 81% bar- rels frcm Grand River, the re- mainder being from Bideford Riv- er. Oysters sold to Iioxley River lessees amounted to 113 barrels. This makes a total of 936 barrels which left the Malpeque area, Bideiord River, Trout River and the Narrows,

“The total cost you will find in the Dominion Estimates. I figure that we sold about 02,500 worth of oysters there this year. There is a total grant, as I said. of 012,000 a year, and tigers are between 20 and 80 men employed. I know a man from Grand River who has gone into the oyster business with the idea of making it a success. Last year he went up to Bidsford River and put down his gear, and he has caught the makings of a. thousand barrels of oysters when they grow up. Forty-eight men, succeeding in that way, would have the production back to what it was in i887. ‘Illat man is em- ploying quite a number of men in addition to the twenty or thirty employed at the Biological Sta-

ruruna raosracrs "

“Every person who tries to de- velop an area is employing men, and I believe that in four or five years there will be more fishermen employed in the industry than at any time in the past. 'I'hat is my personal opinion, and I believe I am not far astray, as I have been identified with the oyster business since I was every young man.