itil mists ii.r.1itii f in its i within si.. any fiiiiifiti t“‘c.7iiii.l§i€

MR. JAMES l\IcISAAC, (Kings, P.

E_ L); Mr. Speaker, I desire to say n few words on this question which is of Paramount importance to the peo- ple oi' Canada, which is indeed one of the most important matters that have come up for discussion in this Parlia- ment for some time. The debate has taken a very wide range and many things have been said. Some things have been said that have had some bearing on the question under review, und quite a number of things have been said that seem to have very lit- tle connection therewith. I will en- deavor, in my brief remarks, to con- iinemysell as nearly as may be to the subject matter oi"the Bill before the House. I believe that I shall be able to understand the subject better myself and to present my. thnughts better regarding the question if, -with your permission, Sir, I 'briefly review the history of this railway matter and inquire what are the steps and what are the different changes which have brought about the conditions in which the Grand Trunk Railway Company now ilnds itself. It is proper too that we should inquire why this legisla- tion ls, before us; why this company comes to this Parliament seeking sid. and why the Government of Canada are now, negotiating with the Grand Trunk Railway Company and are pug. ting this legislation through Parlia- ment in order to meet. the request that has been made \in this connec-

ilon.

At the risk of repeating words that

have been said probably more than once in this debate, I shall endeavor to give the House it resume of the history ol' this question. The original intention of the Grand Trunk Railway Company evidentlyrwas to build it western line connecting at Winnipeg and extending through the western provinces in order to compete forthe increasing trade in that section ot' C9-Ilailil. a trade that was looked after very successfully by the Canadian Pa- citlc Railway Company. It seemed quite reasonable that the company should desire to extend their lines in secure as .large it proportion ot' trade its possible in the western provinces. But for some reason or other when they approached the Government in 1903 to obtain their charter they were persuaded to consider n. more compre- hensive scheme than they ut first en- lcrlitlned, and instead oi' simply bulld~ ing at brimch-westward to the Pacific Coast from ,Winnipeg they conceived' the idea ol’ building eastward as well, from Winnipeg to Quebec and Monc- ton. thus _oomxnittlng themselves 'to the construction oi' a transcontinental llnc. When this matter was present- ei_l lo Parliament by the then leader ot line-Government, Sir Wilfrid Litur- lur, that gentleman ccrtulnly pnintetl it most ruselttc picture of the wonder- iul-things that were to 'come about as it result ol' tliis.ne\v undertaking, and thc enormous benefit it was to prove to Canada. It wus to cost Cltnudu. vcry little to' complete :mother railway from ocean to ocean. in the debates ol’ that time’ the' Prime Minister on the first reading of the Bill on the .l0th July 1903 is thus recorded in

llausard:

The sunt total of money-to be paid by

thu Government for thc construction of that llnc of railway from Moricton to the Pacific Ocean will bc in the neigli- bnrliootl of $12,000,000 or $l3,000,0fl0 and not it cont more.

Further on he says:

Thi: surplus oi’ this yoai' \vlll pay for

tht- construction of this line.

On tile same date at page 7695 of

Hansard he made use oi' these words: E

’i‘hc cnsli subsidy which ls promised

und \\‘liicl\ is to bc given undcr this contract to thc Grand Trunk Pacific Company will not cxcccd $13,000,000 or il\crv:ubout.

'Phat certainly looked' exceedingly l"`°m|Hil1E. Canada wus to have a Wmvleto transcontlnental line from const to coast for practically nothing, but this entranclng picture proved to be 110'- iluite in accordance with the facts. It was agreed that the road should be built in two divisions, one from Winnipeg to the Pacino const and the other from Winnipeg to Monc- ton. that portion of t.he line t'roni Win- 1'|lD0l: to Moncton to be known as the National Transcontinental raiiwitycnd the other portion. extending to the Pacino Ocean, as the Grand Trunk Ba-. ciilc railway. The Government were to build the portion from Winnipeg to Moncton. and the company the oth- ei' section. The National 'Transcon- tinental line. having been.bullt'by the Government. was intended to»he op- erated by the company after it l‘e\v l'®t1l's. and ii nominal rent was to be D810. To dispose oi` tiils briuicii of lhe roiid which tloeanot enler,lnto the question ro any great exten. at thc ‘“°lll€i'il., it is suiiloient to sat' that it

this coin' to thc

$100. tom-

mrry out

agreement. They

road, the Govern- to do so from the be interesllm; to

r branch eatiindins "lm the metric coast fuedi it was a success. “M the company

the Limi- '.|74*W

was subsidized

was Paci-

?| U9

IRI

. i

island the test of practical investiga-

tion. It was a. railway mirage and '

the Grand Trunk Railway Company seem to have been lost in a maze of rainlilcations which completely con- fused and discomilted them. The Grand Trunk Company were not long ewaged in their construction work be- fore they were compelled to come to!

the Government for assistance.

They continued seeking aid agaitll

and again, until, to use the words oi' the ex-Finance Minister-and fam] sure I can refer to no better authority ., -theGovernm'ent_of Cauadaiwere un- der obligation, .in connection with this Grand -Trunk Pacific, to the extentol $145,000,000 directly and indirectly. In addition to that, the parent companys the Grand Trunk railway. wereiunder. obligation to the Grand Trunk‘ Pacino , is'the history in brist of the iinaneiifk' is the history in brelf of-the financing ot' this great road. We arenot ssylllt . that it may not be great, but it hasf' cost Canada a very large sum of mo-‘ ney. We are disappointed because it- was emphasized when the road was about to be built that it would make practically no demand upon the iluan--`

ces of Canada beyond $18,000,000.

Then, reverting for a-moment to the

Canadian Northern, it; too; got into inancial difficulties and-'was obliged wi come t'rom year to year knocking at the doors of Parliament in order to secure financial aid to carry on its business. There was poured out or loaned from year to year millions and millions ot' money, till at last the Gov- ernment of our day decided that no more money should be given to them unless the road should belong to the. Government. The time had come"

when no more risks shouldhe taken by ioaning and giving millions of mo- i uey to a corporation which did not seem to have any near prospect of be-' ing able to pay any portion of the‘ money bacv. The Government had taken over or assumed $40,000,000 ol' the stock ot? the road, while the pro- prietors, or those responsible for the company, had $60,000,000. In 1917 it wi-is decided that no more money should be given to the road unless it-

became the property ot the Govern-i ment. Legislation to that effect was introduced and passed in 1917. In order that the Government might find out wltatwas the reasonable value of

the property or of the $60,000,000 of .

stock that remained in the company, ii. board ol' arbitrators was appointed. - While on that I just wish to dwell for ii. moment 'on somethin that took

legislation 'ot' 1917 on' this questtoh, the Government had agreed, as I have

said, that they would appoint arbitra-I tors to determine thc vitlue ol' the rc- niaining stock. l find that the tlies leader ot' thc Opposition. the la-tel Right llonorublo Sir Wilfrid Laurier, in discussing this question, placed himself on record-, as will be found in l-iansurtl, August 13, i917, to the effect that he had no objection to ar- bitrtlting, but he raised the point that

"Nu nsslstunccv should bc given to the

Cunudian Northern Railway unless at the sumo time it is provlcled that tllc tlnvcrninont hnvc power \vithin a reus- onuhlc time to, ucquirc thc ownership of tho entlrc stock of the company nt o price to be fixed by ul'bltt'atlon,_not to exceed' $30,000,000." '

What I wish -to establish is that the. Opposition, through their leader, malls ; the statement in» Parliament on the 13th August, 1917, that they would ' not object to the award of the arbitra- tors provided it did not exceed $30.1 000,000. I wish to mention this be- cause l may take occasion it little lst- er in the course of my remarks to re- _ fer to tbls=particular part of~- the quee' tion again. V ~ »<

In connsection with the leglslatlowof

1918, reference to which will be found in Hansard or-May 15.- 1918. vase 1506-~ the right honxthe Prime Minister (Sir Robert Borden), discussing the ques- tion and alluding to the matter ofthe -arrangement with the Canadian Nor-

thern, stated that: ~

Hy tl_ic arbitration agreement subse-

quently made it was provided that the

price should not exceed $10,000,000.

You will observe*-'that this is

third ot' the

the their the

willing to I-to while here

that

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you have $100 in the t Savings Bank it Will pay you 3 per cent. interest or fifteen years, $45..

F you take that in-ioney out ofthe Saiving*Ys Bank invest it in Vitctoryd Bonds, Canada will _pay you 5% per cent. interest on it,.,o1f in the same time, 82:50.

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4. -Q ls

‘ Issued by Cautdfl Victory Loan Committee

in co operation with the Minister of Finance of the Dominion oi Canada.

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SEE OFFICIAL PROSPECTUS oN snort-iszra Psal-

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of ier. because he said on that occasion , sv

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i tiilnk that the Grand 'iiruiut nan way system should be productive i' good results For the present I do not condemn tht. idea ot' taking this rail

any over

The two competing railways in the mailer

Wsst-the Canadian Northern and the (hand Trunk Paaiio. lnding it impos s ble tg aueoessluliy continue opera tions ad to succumb and the Gov ernment Iwi no. option in tin matter

but hllpuke than nmlI|

ways v absorbed

ligne 01 §i0 9008003 moltq intl #ll

order that they might be preserved ll!- snd utilised for the benedt oi' Canada Mllfii ¢0

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there was only one ming to doi-tlfe '1ect. Any hon- sentlsmm who vhs qovemmgng _"|~n_ forced, as e mam;-present on those occasions cannot tail

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