i a m“ .._._.... -._ ._.._............. ...._....._... g of.‘ _.

Race ‘bran

THE CHARLQTIETITQYYN GU_A.BDI_6N_.__

in;

.. MAYA 1940

Reviews Serious

taro tion

i

1 3

In

vet Debate‘

Iliiirmtcial, Educational And

C titer Problems By Mr. H. F.

OB ARG-AIN FARES Til ‘"450 iiliontreai :3..t5 Ottawa

,- Three Rivers

can't-n 7.1 l-‘ivc am under

1

Morey flrdcrl Manila“.

ll

wrnflltllrlys which ‘znitetl; bu‘. I am 110i. H‘ alls-uv- llta.’

Discussed McPhee.

ant factor .tl remem-

of 1h:- “nether

the prac f? con followed by and ccrtamly‘

Capital Expenditure

the (toxem-

10 l0 cap- expenditures relation to

. tn works Inc ex- "ulncctlcui vv11l1 atlnzmcci

a 1 .

ems winch no no: 1 ' broad category

atod.

I would rc-

~l3'ol the

IO (‘Pfiflilll

11 1c present ttme. ‘ ‘he arswcr to a qucstlon ' r' " .= makmg up

r1 on: :11 truce d tlicre arc H. ,3 tomato . , . Tho-c are 1tc_1ns of more , North Bay ord1tznz§v aumun; tn n :.. zr. the Dcnartxnen‘. of Ag 1.- ni- " and should haw bcen char;- ' '1'. 271:1.‘ ' 011i. '|‘“I.j Quebec 1c o o" a y ac o n

Youth Training

Que. Another item is No Youth‘ . _ 'I‘1- i i P ' . $Tl'.4 . 3, wit " "'1" 3U $“"i'°'_“ 11 goliiivgponiiiiiegviredit in the way Pill“ ll i-Dll-‘RD FLA‘ of Domiition. contribution, of some fun‘.- $113000. makint: a total no: cx- “ ‘ "“ ~11» r‘ - ‘ 520.0110. It ls ".:1;.-\\. 111v 1011. no W- ill.“ "l" _ . . - 5 _ - y. ,1‘ .. c111 \'u1.": '11s as a ‘ 1 l‘ I‘ “A i’ I x i n I tal cxpcndlture. a This WESQIOY. ~I‘.l.'l'lR.\' LUIIT- ' me unforseen undertaking. suc as . . be t-l- care of on‘

Int-um}. May ll. 1M0 Ext-cpl “(ii think i‘. w” -'*

,1.|-.,,.|.. 41m Nt-rlh Bln Wt‘: - uroncfvtctl 131d‘.

tin. 31.11. |,'.1l._ o_ I 1111s" lwt-mnc '21 110v 1nd perulzinrnt m1". o1 our ct.‘

onal policy, If we aclnlit tmll.

then all our extwcrditurc on voullt training is as much part of ordm- arv extwndlture as what ls cxpendf "l m1 am‘ c-zltr-r form of oducalnon.

"I 1.~~'1~.-~u1-.< lr. on» of the ex- r-hrullrl be 60'1-

ill‘ hrs‘.

1o fmvor11n1cn" is acllzn

results for the moncv which ts be- m: oxrmilrlerl in this dlrcctlon. It

fillliiTriPfi to m" that a

n; born mcn who comc

tunbcr of VOllIli!

tn Charlottetown for the purpose of

For Sale at Morel] two boats of the following dimen-

sions:

No. 1 Bout-Z?) fcct overall, j“ footbcam.

ft :~ coastal fishing.

No. 2 float-ill] fct-t ovcralll, 7 fl. i in. beam.

Splendid

This

boat suitable for coastal fishing or for cruising and pleas-

urc purposes. Plvcclltuit tipporlunity‘ t0

secure wcll and staunchly

built craft, wcll-finishcd and newly constructed. under the

uni-lance of an expert builder.

(fomplctt- without engine ln-pcclion ul Morell.

I)EI’.\II'I‘I\II~JNT

and priced for quick sale.

0F AGRiCFLTllRl-I. Fhnrloltetovnn. I’.E.l.

Jaking acme of Lhese courses N-

le of a. noli-

1~ _ ccrtaut otter comsss ‘ 1. men shad“; be assembcd 111 some convenient ccrxtzal place. But as 1o the a; l- curlural coursEs, the mos: import- ant phase of youin training. lt sfents to me that some arrange- mcn: cotzld b: made 1o enable young men to be sent ‘.0 receive tvantlng from our loading farm- crs. I reah .. of course. that thzs is a relatlvcll‘ for the Go"=rnn1cnt. ‘ on ivizh federal as. a. ~ palzc cs mus: bc such as to ob- fcticral approval; but I ltavc .e.. that 1n a number of cases the best results have not ‘been obtain- ed for tne money expended." Premier Campbell: ‘That ls one reason why that particular item and somc others _of the same kind < .11

Ill _ I ... item 1's subject to Dominion approv- al, and of ccurse a: this time of the v=.1:' we areuzo: altogether sure of 1h;- form or amount, the Dominion assistance will take. For that xcason it is st1ll ln fhc realm o.’ 1111511211 or extraordznary ex- penditurc."

.\1r. .\IcP‘nee: "I tlrnk this l: the rcal sruattotl. hatvever. that this ls a branch of our general cdu- catlona‘. pohcv wvlalch must be continued. and whether we ltave fcderal assurance or not a certain 3111411111 of moncv as to be c»:- nerzded ln this direction bv the Provzncr- “Phat being so, it is pro- n?!‘ to budze‘. for it. The town of zhe operation o! the pollcy- and the r-xtent of the Dominion contribu- Lmn can be later ascertained.

King‘! (‘ounty Exhibition Building

items. I flnd

"Coming ‘lo other Exhibition

No 26. King's County Btxrcrng. It b 1'

1c r y characd to capital ac- . I am informed this ls a blinding xvhlch ls not owned by the Go 'c1'n111ent. If thLs is correct. it is r. r e ‘raordlnar that the ' ‘ but l.’ it

. bu I: ls a splen-

n". accouni for the owners

Pr; 1e: ‘and of the building. but a mcs: im- stwakcrs havt- for ‘ Province. If I l ' 5110b‘ the Province r~I shall b" g'ad

01cc 1 n.

l'l"llfli'O . .- .. Province not own the building. but the evparidtture was incurred ‘:‘.orl‘.y' from the resnnnsltfc

1' ‘Campbell: "Iv tltirk it was r 11c m1 the authority of the Gc'.".=1‘11111cn' ."

.\Ir NIcPhCc: "\‘l"i".1n11: ‘ho pu- tl: '._v of the resoo >1: irrmsfer. but tv111~ the authoritj.‘ of the Gov-

crnmcnt?"

the Gcv-

a , : a1 d he vrntur- zc expendi- _ c made ' tvuv of spr-ciflc sink- ‘o lako care of the bor- .: so far as I am avvnrc. n has boon nuldc in this case. I; was agrcezl cvcn a1 that tlmc tlta: tho expenditure was not properly a capiiel one in tile ordin- arv sense: but if l: could be dc- fcncic-rl when p1'ovi:..1. was ntaclc in 1'11» way of a special bond ls- 1 a spcclfzc snkiiig fund care of and retire thr- ls- suc "1111 a ccrtan". time, it ls obvious that that dcfettsc does not now exlst. and that the expenditure has no rizht lo be placed in cap- ital account." 14011.71‘: .\Icl11‘._v nnk" anv rliffcrance machinery and charge 1'. to ord- lnarv account and 2n ovcr your cagwital account

NIcPlmc: "Tile lvfinistcr ls stung up to the point I am A .g. tnnt 11. docs no; make vciy 111t1cl1 dlffcruzcc where you charge 1t. and that the rcal pcture is dis- closed by the debt of the Province ln relation to its revenue. But what I do object to ls that sort of jockcving with the Public Ac- counts to show 1a‘. vvc have a 5111'- plus uhcn u; actually ill\\'(‘ a de- ficit: and I think 1111: 11113111: ltas a rizhl. to {now that what exists tn this case is a deficit very much larger than the Public Accounts (lisclcsc. 'I‘hcv can of course act the actual picture as the Nhni-tr-r sugzcnls, by looking a‘. the debt incrcasc.

"Si-nee I am on this qucstinn I wish to refer to another item which I fcel is impossible to charge to capital account. That. ls No. 14 t2): Sub-grading. 521180078. We ha . a grcai deal of rxpcfidltttrc char:- ed to sub-graclinrz of secondary roads which I submit. ls not pro- porlv chargeable to capital account, no more than ls ordinary road ma- chine work. It ls mtly a matter of dczrcc. Thc minister may do the work a littlc more t-horoulzlltv but thc principle is wrong lwrause ' rclatcs to no pcrmammt work and should pmpcrlv be charged to ord- inary account.

"I am nr.‘ c0111: to lain the trou- ble of totalling lhcsc accounts ho- caufic. as thc Mlnislrr suggests. it does not makc any difference. 'I‘l1l.=. business of trying to show n sur- plus on ordinary account means nothing, what we must lock at and find out ls the financial posi- tion of the Province and our adil- ity to take care of it depends on tho amount of the debt. m1 the state of our revenue, and also the slate of the country

Huge Debt Increase

“During the year cndlnz Dec. Ill. 1039. the debt of this Province was increased by morc than a mil- lion and thrcc-quartcr dollars. This bring; the total debt no to almost $9.f.‘00.C00 That ls without taklnt lntn rcnslrlaration m- un- paid bills. Wc cnrleavorad hv ques- tions placed on tho Order Paoo: to fhtd out "shat the tmpald bills act- ually amounted to, I submPls/l 1n our disrmsinn with thn Minister that the fizurr-s which tho auf-‘tnr nuahl ave us would ncl be cor- "' ' .1 v 1‘ v 112i not. pnlhPfiflf‘ r- - - »-~»-;....~ r1 ‘n. -t‘|'w] claims. chiefly cenlrrzl in the De- partment of Public Works. I do

l

'not suggest ma: all these unset- tl-z-a claims are unsettled because of any fault ln the deparment. Doubtless many claims are there tvvluch should not be there. isut I know of a numbcr that aze per- fectly valid claims. with which the engineers of the department have no; yet had time to deal. I know 3L0 that there are in that depot’.- "lt-‘nl "W"? unPEld bllLs which itane not zat mto the hands of the auditor. and we must. in ctrasld. cring the total debt of the pmv. mce. add those bills which have been incurred and are not yet plld. We must regard these unpaid bills for all years up to the end of 1939.

Mr. hiclntyre‘: I-‘igurq

"The whistler of Public Works has suggested that this situation. which we regard u ext-namely 811W. is. u a matter of fact. not so very grave after all. I-Ie su - nests that we wuld and posslby should incur a debt of 830000.000, and he has submitted certain tig- ures showing what our er capita debt 1s in relation to oiuher prov- inces. At the time. the loader of the Opposition suggested that that mean‘ nothing at. ail. because you w1ll 11nd that nearly all the other provinces possess asset-s which we do not possess. ‘Iho Province of Ontario, for example. has very valuable public utilities. some of the Provinces have railway system! of their own; all of them have a great deal in the way of Crown resources which they can Mt l- galrlst their provincial debt. But our position la that there la not-h- ing in the way of asset: which wo can place against it. except per- hags the ‘road mawlrtery and our. pu 11c buildings. ‘rhat being so. we can draw scant. comfort. 30m any atmarent position of superior- ity as to the other provinces ln re- lation to per capita debt.

"The Premier has said that. the peak of our abtity to carry this load 1112s not as yet laecn reached. He has i dzcated 1:1 his address the extent of the capital expendituae 1n relation to 1asrmanent- roads which are contemplated for this year. These projects. as I recollect. arc the road from Montrose to Tig- nlsh. txe completion of the road between Charlottetown and Sourls, and the paving of the road from Hzllsboro Bridge to Cross Roads. The P: nicr suggests that revenues are ailable to lake care of the ordinary expenditures. public services as now constituted, the flebt charges as they now exist. and the additional debt in the way of interest. and sinking funds.“ Prenucr Campbell: "I was re- ferring 1o charges so far as high- ways wcrc concerned. I indicated that. the revenues for other de- partments are inadequate."

Afr. McPFec: ‘That is sayin! that we 11121;" require some curtailment thc other services. Then if we 1t. to keép up the public ser- vi es or do anything furthcr in the way of ltlghvaav iznprovcment it l: nccfssar" to rap new revenue. We find our. res in this position. that our ability to carry on becomes contingent. firstly‘, 1113011 the pro- v.nc.al rcvcnuc hcdintz up. A la 8e part of our provincial revenue now consists of receipts from motor ve- hiclcs, registration and gasoline tax. If thcsc do not hold up. the p ‘.11 1n which we will find our- selves will b: cvzn worsa than the Premier stnzgcsts. That la some- ihtntz whiclt we must carefully consider. lzerausc we do no‘. know that rovcnu: from lhcse sourctr. vvil‘. hold up "

C irunnr. M1" MrPhcc cx- the hope that revenue from tours‘. traffic would increase. . . cl cut that this was by no mcaus a cc alrlty

Public Services

"Our ztbiliiy" to carry on ts con- linacm on another factor." he S3itl. “That is zlzat we dopnot enlarge our fitld of publzc SETVlCES. We cannot cxtrcnct any more there than we have spam. and as the Premier suggests. even if the re- venues continue as they are 1he:e may have to be some curtailment 'I'l111t 1:. why I sifgges: that the slttlatlon in which we 11.111 our- selves is an extremely serious one. laecattse we kitcw that there arc departments of the public service where the expenditure should be increased.

"The alternative suggested by the Premier is thatwe must tapnew‘ sources of revenue. That is another comiderallor. for the House 1n a debate of this kind. We may ask uuzsclvcs. where could we get new revenue? This is my submission. that while our farmers do neutral‘ very much in the way of direct taxes-that is. their land taxes are low and sz-ltcol taxes arc 1'cla'.lv.>._v low -never;hel:ss. having regard to the state of the agricultural in- dustry at the present time our farmers. I think, are paying in taxes all that they cap rjford to pay. I do not know what other clas- ses can afford to pay tzrcater taxes than fhcv are paying. The prosper- zty of everyone in this Province is contingent on the prosperity of the tarmcr. and I cannot suggcst any class that could be taxed to any appreciable extcitt- more than they arc 110w being laxcd. V

“Indeed. in order to restore arri- culturc and the fishery industry. large expenditures will b0 required by the Province. I do not think I am over-stating the position when I say that the position of agricul- ture throughout the province ls quite low. I am only repeating what members of this Government have already said 111 that. reward: and tho same ls t"uc in relation to the fishery industry.

“Those of us who practice law arc aware that. lt l5 itractically lm- possible to find funds to invest. ln farm mortgages. There are many applzcarls. for wry lcgilimatc nur- poscs Two or three years no it was an easy thing to find these funds. In fact investors came to you with money. askinlr to have it. itivcstcrl. but now" it ls nrncficallv impossible to act the money. Thrre 111-0 two mlncinal reasons: first the fact that acvlculturc is in a de-

TILLIE THE TOILER _

prcsscd condition. that. the fannar .1

finds it difficult to pay interest

and that those who havu mortgages I have found that to be the situation. lTherefore farm mortgages instead 01 Will allt-edzcd securities as they used to be, have become l greexctarloua and speculative invest- “Becondly. the persons who have money invested 1n farms and woo ordtnarly would re-lnveat that capital as it ls pold off, now have no new fluids to re-lnveat because no c ltal la being pstd off. That altuston provalla and I think itlla W 800d index u to the state of mgr culture. I know there are some districts which are better oft’ in this regard. bu’. I am speaking of the moderate class farmer and the

Position 1n which he finds hin- self. Nood For Action "We all agree, of course. that

this Province depends printuily on a rlculture, and lf that la tho con-

tlon of things. it la incumbent on the Government to do something to remedy it. I m not suggesting that the whole solution the uestion lles within the power of

e Government. Much depends on world markets which are en- tirely beyond the control of any- one in this province; but there are certain things wHh the Depart- ment of Agriculture ought to do. and which will roqulne the expendi- ture of money.

"Where Ls this money olng u: come from? Part of the so utlcm of our problem, I think. llea ln ef- fecting some change in our ayattem d education. I have already aug- gested to the House in the discus- sion on certain bllla. that our edu- . catlonal system seemed w be op- erating 1n avicloua circle. and that it was slip mg a little year after year. The lnlster has intimated that tho Government means m take certain measures to improve these conditions. 5o far as I am concerned. I shall be delighted to cooperate ln any measure calcu- lated to improve education. I think when the Minister is considering this question. and before any move is made, that the whole broad olc- ture of our educational system should be considered

Practical Education

"I have read with interest. and keen appreciation the address which the Premier gave in the House at one time. dealing with the desirability of retaining the system of what we might. call classical education. While I agree with that in principle. neverthe- less I feel that those who argue that. something should be done t0 adopt our system to the needs of the province are capable of mak- ing out a strong case also z and I believe that both points of view are capable of being reconciled.

The Government, should ap- proach this problem with that‘ thought in mlnd. to see lf some- thing cannot be done to adapt our educations! system to those who need it, in the shape they need it. eo that. lt will be of use to them. on whatever field of occupation they enter in making their homes here. I realize it is a difficult question. that the fiilnlster and the Gov- emment have a large task before them: and I am sorry they did not start lt four years ago The Gov- ernment had a grcat. chance when there was no Opposition at all. to introduce such measures; but I think perhaps the presence of the Opposition has awakened them to the duties and requirements _of tlteit- office. It is not something that can be accomplished over night. but. I do feel that we should try to buid u a system of edu- cation here wrere something will be done for the boy who wants to stay on the farm or continue flah- ing. While we must not lose the great asset of what 1 have called the classical system of education, we must solve the problem of Dro- vidizr; practical education as well.

“Of ccuise, a start has been made in that direction in the form of adult education and youth train- ing. These matters should a‘l be placed under the Department of Education. Youth training ls hand- led by the Department: of Agricul- ture. but I could never see any 1021C in that . It is a work which pro- perly falls under the jurisdiction of the Minister of Education.

Farm Rehabilitation

“One of tho plEIlkS i11 the plat- " ‘W f‘=*"*rI1've11t at tire last. election was the introduction of a

.;. agricultural rehablhta-

p

tlcn. I am rather doubtful whe- ther the Government ever had a policy in relation to this matter. Those who spoke of the policy al- wavs spokc of it ln connection with an nxparimmt corlducted by the Metro litan Ltfe Insurance Oompanu ut the answers which were ta led by the Minister of Agriculture suggest that the Gov- ernment was proceeding on lines somewhat different, and ln pursu-' ncc of a policy not at all similar to that which was followed under the Metzopolltan scheme. In any case. the Government. has abandon- ed the idea of doing anything at all 1n regard to this matter at the present time. wish to point out. ltowevcr. that when the War is over the Government is going to be faced with a problem in reference to this very matter. a great deal more acute ‘tartan tlhat yvhlcht existed wten e po cy was frs su gest- ed. And I think the Govcrriment. would be wise tn make a beginn- lng ln this direction. so that when the great need arises. as 1t will arise after the War. this Province will be in a position to proceed and do scmo-thlniz constructive "'I‘hls 1s a large programme and will be attended wth all sorts of dangers. It can be extremely ex- pensive. and it is one where pro- lrress should be slow. I do not think the Government can afford to wait until hcwtllllles are over before making a beginning. because lt will be some vents after a beginn- ing is made before anything in a large way ls done; that ls pro-